SMK and American History

[iwsod]

Hi Everyone!

I'm just starting to walk through A Lovely Little Affair and.. given the content I thought it might be helpful to start a thread on American History.
Not being an American, I'll be looking forward to seeing what SMK references there are to American history - in this episode sure - but this thread could apply more broadly to any smk references to historical USA.

I am guessing all Americans here have studied American history at school? Anyone specifically studied it? Just curious!

Since the constitution features prominently in ALLA.. I'm looking forward to learning more about it!
Is there just the one copy?
Anyone like to give us a brief summary of it's history?

For historical ideas that come up on JWWM, I'll link back to here to explore them in greater detail - if we want to

Byeee,

Iwsod

[laura]

The document represented in ALLA is the original Constitution which is signed by the founding Fathers. Basically it is the supreme law of the United States.

You are correct American history and political science is studied in high school. Copies of the Constitution are in the history books. Copies of the Constitution can also be found in any general bookstore in America. There are some students that have the proclivity for history and/or political science. Others have forgotten the subject as soon as the class is over. There are lawyers who specialize in constitutional law. They will argue for or against the constitutionality of new laws.

I hope that this helps.

I hope that this helps you.

[swissmiss]

I didn't go check but I thought the document in ALLA was the Declaration of Independence.

If so, here is a link with info on it: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence

Basically, it is the document signed by the 13 colonies that told the British we were demanding freedom from British rule so we could govern ourselves as a nation.  It is the bravery in signing this bold document which is celebrated on July 4 (Independence Day) every year.

The very first line of the Declaration is what Lee and Amanda find written on the paper in Chamberlain's hotel room.  Here are the first paragraph and a half of the document:

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

The Constitution is also a very important document though cuz it identifies the rights we have as United States citizens and also designates who has the power to do what in our government (many rules of which Obama has been breaking a lot of recently and using powers that are not his to accomplish his ends).

[jestress]

My first college degree was in history. I choose it as background for my writing because I want to write historical novels (nothing published yet, but if I do, I'll let you know ) I love the idea of a history thread, and I'll have fun adding things here occasionally (as evidenced by the stuff I've been posting under the women spies thread, I probably have a few other toys I could show you besides the cypher wheel ).

Anyway, Swissmiss is right, the document in ALLA is the Declaration of Independence. It's appropriate that you're doing this episode now, Iwsod, since we're approaching its anniversary.

You're also right about there being multiple copies of it, although there is an official original document. I couldn't remember off the top of my head how many copies there were, so I looked it up through the U.S. National Archives:

www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/treasure/declaration_facts.html

Most of the existing copies made on the same date that the original Declaration was signed (July 4, 1776) were ones that were created to be distributed throughout the colonies and read aloud to notify members of the general public that the colonies were officially breaking away from Britain.

The Declaration has three main parts:
1. A statement of the rights of people under a government, including the right to change a government which violates those rights.
2. A list of grievances against the British government.
3. A statement declaring that the colonies were now independent of the British government.

My teachers often emphasized the documents that provided the inspiration for the Declaration, including the Magna Carta (which provided some basis for the idea that kings were not absolute authorities and could be defied when their actions proved detrimental to the people of their country). However, one of the aspects that made the Declaration different from the Magna Carta was that the Magna Carta focused more on the rights of nobility and landowners, and the Declaration referred more to the rights of the general population. There was criticism, even at the time the Declaration was written, because there was also slavery in the colonies, and therefore not everyone was receiving these rights. It actually caused division among the founding fathers. Thomas Jefferson (despite being a slave-owner himself) actually felt badly about the institution of slavery and wanted to add criticism about George III's promotion of the slave trade to the Declaration, but slave-holding delegates from colonies both in the north and south protested, and references to slavery were kept out of the Declaration. (for more information: www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part2/2h33.html)

A couple of my teachers have pointed out that some of the grievances that the colonies had against Britain were actually not as bad as the colonists made out and that their treatment under British authority wasn't as unreasonable according to British laws at the time as the founding fathers believed. In fact, had communication between the colonies and Britain been faster, some of Britain's decisions could have been clarified and the colonists' grievances could have been addressed before the colonists' feelings had time simmer and explode into open rebellion. However, what I think is most telling about the situation and the colonists' feelings were that the colonists, separated from Britain by long ocean voyages and filled with people who had come to the colonies specifically because they were dissatisfied with their lives in Europe (and the children of such people who were born in the colonies and had never actually been to Europe) no longer felt like part of Britain.

I think that this feeling of not really belonging was the real heart of the conflict, although it gave the founding fathers a chance to experiment with developing a new form of government.  The early U.S. government was very much an experiment, created by people with extremely strong but widely differing views of what a government should be and what it should do.  The Constitution was actually the second document attempting to establish the basic rules and forms for governing the new United States.  The first one was the Articles of Confederation, created shortly after the colonies declared independence, but it was too problematic and didn't last very long.

Lecture over!  If you want to see something fun, look up the movie 1776.  It's actually a musical about the creation of the Declaration of Independence, if you can imagine such a thing.  My high school history teacher praised it for pointing out some of the personality quirks of the founding fathers.  They were an eccentric bunch who often disagreed with each other, sometimes barely tolerated each other, but had to learn to work together to accomplish what they wanted to accomplish.  There's a lot of comedy in it (a case that you could make about American history itself and the people involved with it), but it also addresses some of the serious issues they had to consider, like slavery.  It also makes a running gag out of the delegates from New York abstaining (which is true, they had to because they hadn't received orders from their home colony about how to vote).  Every so often, I still get the songs stuck in my head:  "He plaaaays the violiiiin . . ."

[laura]

I stand corrected. I am embarrassed that I didn't go back to look at the episode before making my comments.  Iwsod mentioned the constitution and I ran with it.  Since it is not her Declaration of Independence and Constitution her confusion is understandable.  I wont make the same mistake again.

[iwsod]

Oopsie!!! sorry for leading you astray there Laura!! LOL!! I thought i'd said declaration of independence here - I was at first thinking it was the constitution but then I wrote post 2 and realised (and this is where I've linked to this thread) well it's cool to learn about both!

Oh swissmiss.. La laaaaaaa.. I haven't watched ahead in this ep- so not sure what Lee and Amanda find I'll come back to this! [now I'm doing season 3 I am really quite blank about what's ahead in the episodes! i'm kind of flying by the seat of my pants a lot like Amanda does I guess! squeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Really? how wonderful!!! A Declaration of Independence anniversary? oh wait.. is that that 4th of july thingy??!!

I know the magna Carta - Australia has a one of them in the National Parliament House!

Ohhh post 2 has some questions about the English.. so I'll come back to this thread! thanks guys and Laura - don't worry! my fault!

[jestress]

Jun 29, 2014 19:45:48 GMT laura said:

I stand corrected. I am embarrassed that I didn't go back to look at the episode before making my comments.  Iwsod mentioned the constitution and I ran with it.  Since it is not her Declaration of Independence and Constitution her confusion is understandable.  I wont make the same mistake again.

Don't worry about it.

I wasn't sure at first either, and I had to refresh my memory on all the other stuff I talked about, too.  There's probably a ton of other things I've forgotten or didn't think to mention, and some stuff that could be disputed (especially the stuff about people's characters and motivations, which are open to interpretation).

Here's a link if you want to know more about the movie I mentioned:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1776_%28film%29

It has a section about the historical accuracies/inaccuracies in the movie.  Some of them I've heard before, and some I haven't.  One thing I remember my teacher mentioning is that the Declaration might not have actually been signed on July 4, at least not by all the delegates.  I don't remember the details anymore, but the delegates may not have all been together on July 4 (as depicted in the movie), and they might have signed the Declaration separately over a period of weeks.

Still, it's an interesting movie, especially if you already have some historical background, and the songs are fun.  The violin song is my favorite, sung by the character of Martha Jefferson about her husband, Thomas Jefferson.  In real life, the two of them did share a love of music.

[jestress]

Jun 30, 2014 4:17:33 GMT iwsod said:

Really? how wonderful!!! A Declaration of Independence anniversary? oh wait.. is that that 4th of july thingy??!!

 Yep, that's it.

July 4th is Independence Day here in honor of the signing of the Declaration of Independence (not to be confused with the movie where aliens blow up the White House).  The favorite way to celebrate is with large fireworks displays because what could be better for celebrating the birth of your country than blowing up carefully selected pieces of it?  (That's actually not my quote.  I forget who said it, but I like it for the irony and dramatic imagery. Nothing really gets blown up unless someone is really bad at setting up fireworks.)

[morley]

There were some American History mentions in TFT as well. Duck ala Nathan Hale etc were all history references. Nathan Hale was a school teacher in CT and operated as a spy in the Revolutionary war. He was caught and hanged by the British. His famous words were something like, "I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country"

[Jenbo]

I love history, British, European and American <3

So lovely to hear it explained Jesstress, I confess much of my info came from the film National Treasure LOL

[BJo]

Jun 29, 2014 19:45:48 GMT laura said:

I stand corrected. I am embarrassed that I didn't go back to look at the episode before making my comments.  Iwsod mentioned the constitution and I ran with it.  Since it is not her Declaration of Independence and Constitution her confusion is understandable.  I wont make the same mistake again.

Don't be too embarrassed,laura...I bet practically everyone here has "been there and done that" too!  I know I have!!!  

[jestress]

Happy 4th of July, everyone!

[Jenbo]

Jul 4, 2014 17:05:45 GMT jestress said:

Happy 4th of July, everyone!

The British are coming

Happy 4th July from the resident Limey

[jestress]

Jul 4, 2014 21:50:45 GMT Jenbo said:

Jul 4, 2014 17:05:45 GMT jestress said:

Happy 4th of July, everyone!

The British are coming

Happy 4th July from the resident Limey

It may be Independence Day only in the U.S., but it's still the 4th of July everywhere!

[iwsod]

Jun 30, 2014 21:19:11 GMT Jenbo said:

I love history, British, European and American <3

So lovely to hear it explained Jesstress, I confess much of my info came from the film National Treasure LOL

Whoooo hoooo! Guess what I'm watching right at this moment??

National Treasure (for the first time) !!!

Hey how much of this stuff is real.. gee let me guess there really isn't an invisible inscription on the back of the declaration.. right?? RIGHT??

Hmm.. I'll have to keep an eye out for it when we get to see the back of it in ALLA!