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Post by jule on Jan 5, 2014 4:12:15 GMT
Well, I know we haven't gotten there on JWWM but I have to admit, I have a strong feeling for the order of s3, at least the beginning. So here goes: 1. Welcome to America Mr Brand 2. Tail of the Dancing Weasel 3. Over the Limit 4. A Lovely Little Affair 5. We're off to see the Wizard 4 & 5 are a toss up but I am firmly committed to OTL before ALLA. Just for emotional gut level feelings, not even logical reasons.
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Post by iwsod on Jan 5, 2014 4:48:48 GMT
argh.. just typed a biggg response and the stupid internet ate it. I'll try again Jule thanks for raising this and sharing your suggested episode order. I am in a bit of a dilemma.. I don't want to watch the season 3 episodes until I've covered them on JWWM, but.. I am not sure what order to blog them in! I could just do the original airing order, and then stop after five episodes and look back and consider the story and come up with an order them with you guys.. In the poll most people suggested they preferred Petra's order - but was that because the original order was so dumb?? or because Petra's is best. Maybe it is I have no idea - and can't know until I've covered it.. [Kudos to Petra though for putting it out there for us all! ] Soooo Jule your order here is interesting.. and I'd be interested to hear what others think - who have watched them lately! Petra's order is: 1- Welcome 2- Tail 3- We're 4- A lovely 5- Over The original airing order is: 1- A lovely 2- We're off 3- over 4- tail 5- welcome The production order is: 1- Welcome 2- Over 3- We're 4- A lovely 5- Tail I see Jule's order is very similar to the production order. Why is the production order not right? can someone explain this for me? I don't remember the details of the episodes. Is there a reason it doesn't work? Jule why have you put tail second? I honestly don't remember the details of it - it's been a few years since I saw it. Oh boy.. I can't wait to get to season 3!! Anyway, so I would really love to hear people's thoughts on this.. Is there any obviously wrong episodes that we can all agree need to go first?? Is that what happened with welcome - was that where Lee got the Q bureau? BTW- it's been a few years, but I do like the idea of Over the Limit happening before A Lovely Little Affair I'm confused! what should I do on JWWM guys? suggestions?? Help???!!!
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Post by jule on Jan 5, 2014 5:16:28 GMT
Iwsod, I was anticipating s3 but haven't watched it in a while. I wrote down this order with exclamation marks all over OTL and ALLA last time I watched them. Somehow OTL screamed to me that it came before ALLA in the emotional build up, especially due to the bedroom scene (get your mind out of that gutter!) in ALLA. And I just remember that Welcome was a, meh, stand alone episode that I'd rather get over with first. And I think the Q Bureau is first mentioned in Weasel. Arrrrgh, must think on this and get back to you.
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Post by valerie on Jan 5, 2014 16:17:41 GMT
I think there was a brief discussion about this over on the blog and I think the order has something to do with the Q Bureau. The original airing order is confusing because of when the Q Bureau comes into play. One minute it's a part of the show in the next it's not. One minute it's nice and neat the next it's in disarray. Seeing as we may be snowbound for the next couple of days (Can you say snow day?) I may have a brief look see and check out the Q Bureau. I think when I looked at it before I was in agreement with Petra's order, but I may be wrong.
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Post by valerie on Jan 5, 2014 18:51:35 GMT
I had a quick look see without delving too much into the actual episodes and just noticed a few things. In Welcome To America Amanda's hair is longer, but not as long as in the next few episodes in question, also there is no Q Bureau. In Over The Limit there is no Q Bureau, but not a lot of time spent at Agency. Q Bureau seen in Wizard and Lovely Little Affair and it's nice and clean in both. BB has bruise on his forehead in Wizard and Over The Limit. It's a little faded in Over The Limit or either a bad makeup job or bad lighting in either episode. The crux of it will come down to what emotional connections or attachments Lee and Amanda had with one another. I think that would be some interesting fodder for discussions on the blog. I have several theories myself and could go either way on Wizard, Affair, and Limit. I definitely think that Weasel should come after Welcome to America though. Maybe production sequence doesn't necessarily connect with writing sequence. Maybe it has to do more with availability of actors, locations, etc. I have no idea I'm just guessing on why there is such a change in chronology on some of the episodes throughout the series.
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Post by morley on Jan 5, 2014 19:58:14 GMT
I am so glad that we are finally talking about the order of season 3!!! A while ago I was thinking about the first few episodes of that season and it just felt weird, both the airing order and Petra's. The presence of the Q is important but I couldn't help noticing the length of Amanda's hair and I realized that it is still very short in OTL. I also watch her necklaces. Based on those three things I put together a slightly different order as well:
1 Welcome to America 2 OTL 3 Weasel 4 Wizard 5 ALLA
Part of what I included in my thoughts was the presence of Leslie in the script for Wizard and in my little SMK world in my head I have made that fit too. It works well in my head, if anyone wants to hear it I could share it but maybe we should wait till we get there, or I get there in my stories... don't really know which will happen first.
Welcome to America just needs to be first, actually I think that scene with Amanda and Brand and the hat rack kind of introduce the season well. Then I like OTL next, I just want to get Leslie over with, but Amanda's hair is still pretty short and the Q isn't in it at all. Weasel introduces the Q nicely so it has to be next. I put Wizard next because Amanda is still wearing the solitaire necklace and because of Leslie in the script. Then ALLA, she is wearing the heart necklace and we have only seen it once before in the party scene in Welcome to America and the stage is set for Lee to be very aware of that pull towards Amanda and do something about it, even if it is playful. He still gives himself room to back pedal at this stage.
So you can add a 5th suggestion for order if you want to
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Post by iwsod on Jan 6, 2014 0:19:21 GMT
Iwsod, I was anticipating s3 but haven't watched it in a while. I wrote down this order with exclamation marks all over OTL and ALLA last time I watched them. Somehow OTL screamed to me that it came before ALLA in the emotional build up, especially due to the bedroom scene (get your mind out of that gutter!) in ALLA. And I just remember that Welcome was a, meh, stand alone episode that I'd rather get over with first. And I think the Q Bureau is first mentioned in Weasel. Arrrrgh, must think on this and get back to you. Hi Jule! I'm sorry I didn't mean to put you on the spot or anything Please don't feel like you must explain your order or anything I'm just looking for some help from anyone who is able to help - so I can figure out how to approach blogging the start of season 3. If you get to it great - but really no pressure It's been helpful to hear you agree with my gut feeling that ALLA should go after OTL though.. I've always felt that!!!
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Post by iwsod on Jan 6, 2014 0:27:00 GMT
I think there was a brief discussion about this over on the blog and I think the order has something to do with the Q Bureau. The original airing order is confusing because of when the Q Bureau comes into play. One minute it's a part of the show in the next it's not. One minute it's nice and neat the next it's in disarray. Seeing as we may be snowbound for the next couple of days (Can you say snow day?) I may have a brief look see and check out the Q Bureau. I think when I looked at it before I was in agreement with Petra's order, but I may be wrong. Hiya Valerie! so great you found your way to Neds! Welcome!!! Yeah there may have been discussion on the blog I don't remember. I probably would not have really absorbed it as early season 3 just wasn't in my head space [and there is only such a little space up there! ] The blog isn't really a great place to discuss this at the moment - until there is a post up at the blog referring to season 3 order, any discussion of it will get lost - this forum is a much better lay out for discussions like this.. I'd prefer to keep the blog on track - and not moving ahead with discussions of future episodes. If I were to put up a post about the season 3 order now at JWWM, I suspect that is what it might invite - lots of discussion about the content of the early season 3 episodes.. which then opens a great big can of worms if you know what I mean I haven't seen the episodes in a really long time - so I can blog them fresh- it helps me to see things better.. just a foible of mine! But.. whatever order I end up blogging these first five episodes in - I think it would be constructive to stop and do a post on season 3 ep order then - so we can share in one place our views on our preferred order - at the end of the day, sometimes it comes down to personal preference.. so there will be different views on this I am sure Snow day? LOL.. the closest I came to that was when I was in school our school was shut down for the day because it was going to be something like 45 degrees (Celsius) and there was an extreme fire danger.. the kind of day where one spark would create a firestorm! Yeah I may agree with Petra's order too Valerie - she is very cluey!!! but.. as of the moment I have no idea.. and am always open to ideas.. Oh and right now, I do differ with Petra on the order of ALLA and OTL. but that is just my personal preference right now - and maybe there is something in the episode I don't remember which makes this unfeasible. I don't know!
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Post by iwsod on Jan 6, 2014 0:29:30 GMT
I had a quick look see without delving too much into the actual episodes and just noticed a few things. In Welcome To America Amanda's hair is longer, but not as long as in the next few episodes in question, also there is no Q Bureau. In Over The Limit there is no Q Bureau, but not a lot of time spent at Agency. Q Bureau seen in Wizard and Lovely Little Affair and it's nice and clean in both. BB has bruise on his forehead in Wizard and Over The Limit. It's a little faded in Over The Limit or either a bad makeup job or bad lighting in either episode. The crux of it will come down to what emotional connections or attachments Lee and Amanda had with one another. I think that would be some interesting fodder for discussions on the blog. I have several theories myself and could go either way on Wizard, Affair, and Limit. I definitely think that Weasel should come after Welcome to America though. Maybe production sequence doesn't necessarily connect with writing sequence. Maybe it has to do more with availability of actors, locations, etc. I have no idea I'm just guessing on why there is such a change in chronology on some of the episodes throughout the series. Thanks Valerie! that is all helpful! So is the Q bureau messy and being moved into in an episode? but by Wizard and ALLA it is all organised? I agree re the production order. It is not definitive, but it can add a clue I really appreciate your help here!
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Post by iwsod on Jan 6, 2014 0:37:53 GMT
I am so glad that we are finally talking about the order of season 3!!! A while ago I was thinking about the first few episodes of that season and it just felt weird, both the airing order and Petra's. The presence of the Q is important but I couldn't help noticing the length of Amanda's hair and I realized that it is still very short in OTL. I also watch her necklaces. Based on those three things I put together a slightly different order as well: 1 Welcome to America 2 OTL 3 Weasel 4 Wizard 5 ALLA Part of what I included in my thoughts was the presence of Leslie in the script for Wizard and in my little SMK world in my head I have made that fit too. It works well in my head, if anyone wants to hear it I could share it but maybe we should wait till we get there, or I get there in my stories... don't really know which will happen first. Welcome to America just needs to be first, actually I think that scene with Amanda and Brand and the hat rack kind of introduce the season well. Then I like OTL next, I just want to get Leslie over with, but Amanda's hair is still pretty short and the Q isn't in it at all. Weasel introduces the Q nicely so it has to be next. I put Wizard next because Amanda is still wearing the solitaire necklace and because of Leslie in the script. Then ALLA, she is wearing the heart necklace and we have only seen it once before in the party scene in Welcome to America and the stage is set for Lee to be very aware of that pull towards Amanda and do something about it, even if it is playful. He still gives himself room to back pedal at this stage. So you can add a 5th suggestion for order if you want to Haa yes now I've finished writing Burn Out and all that drama I've started to ponder what to do with season 3.. like I said to Valerie I have limited head space! wow.. you have put OTL earlier! Can I ask - why have you put OTL before Weasel? why not the other way around? does it not work? If there is no reason, I think it's better to stick to the airing order as much as possible. but if there are good reasons for putting Weasel after OTL I'm happy to go with it. Good catch on the necklace Morley! I must say, the details of all this go over my head - and I'll take your word for it! but.. just remembering the big moments in these eps, at the moment I do like the idea that Lee dates Leslie, then has the Tinman go and start targeting all his ex girlfriends.. and Lee deals with his loss of Dorothy- gives Amanda a rose at the end.. I like this after OTL and before ALLA - of course ALLA ends with Lee actually asking Amanda out.. playfully, pretending to be 'teaching' her..but I think that's just Lee taking it to the next level without acknowledging it.. LOL>> that's Lee isn't it?! Or have I remembered wrong?? I'm just going by my vague recollections from years ago now!! soooo I reserve my right to change my mind completely haaaaa! But what do you make of Leslie not being warned of Lee's ex's being targeted? or is it a case of- who cares? So maybe I'll go with Petra's order, but just switch the last two eps?
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Post by iwsod on Jan 6, 2014 0:43:57 GMT
no no nooo I was remembering Petra’s order wrong.. I can’t just switch the last two.. I’m getting confused.. I’ll list the options here again:
Petra's order is: 1- Welcome 2- Tail 3- We're 4- A lovely 5- Over
The original airing order is: 1- A lovely 2- We're off 3- over 4- tail 5- welcome
The production order is: 1- Welcome 2- Over 3- We're 4- A lovely 5- Tail
Jule’s order: 1. Welcome to America Mr Brand 2. Tail of the Dancing Weasel 3. Over the Limit 4. A Lovely Little Affair 5. We're off to see the Wizard
Morley’s order:
1 Welcome to America 2 OTL 3 Weasel 4 Wizard 5 ALLA
Soooo Morley I'd love to hear your thoughts on if Weasel then OTL works. I see Petra and Jule have gone with that order.
I think I'm closest to Jule in my thinking at the moment.. What about this: 1- Welcome 2- Tail 3- OTL 4- ALLA 5- Wizard
Does this work??
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Post by morley on Jan 6, 2014 1:23:48 GMT
This is fun...
I based my order on hair length first. I know that sounds funny, but as I watched them I found that the hair length was actually proving to fit in with how I thought they should go. And it goes with the production order. The only thing that is off with the production order is that they made Weasel last and it has to go before Wizard and ALLA. But it doesn't have to go before OTL because the Q is not mentioned or shown in that one at all, so OTL can comfortably go before it. I also put weight on the necklace. I still need to come up with a good reason why the necklace maters. I am leaning towards using the fan fic "An Open Heart" to explain it, I think it fits.
As for why Leslie wouldn't have been notified I think it was because she was supposed to be in NYC and she came to DC to surprise Lee. I also think that Lee has already moved on past her and actually I think he dated her because she fit so perfectly into his last vestige of compartmentalization and so he quite forgot about her in all his consternation about Dorothy, the Wizard, Tinman and Amanda... but that is a discussion for another day.
I also kind of want ALLA after Wizard because Lee sees Amanda open to someone else in ALLA and I think that is one of the last motivators for poor Lee...
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Post by iwsod on Jan 6, 2014 2:00:23 GMT
oh phew! glad you find this fun Morley - me too! hair length eh.. that does not sound strange at all! And there is no reason OTL cant be second that anyone can thnk of? Let's do it that way then! the earlier with that ep the better! right wizard before ALLA - I agree with that.. I wrote about it and then didn't put it in the right order in the list I suggested LOL> I'm confusing myself. sorry about that! Anyone want to speak up about any other order? right now I'm more than happy to go with Morley's order - which is quite close to Jule's.. I'll just mention on JWWM we are discussing this here, provide the link to this thread and give a shout out to anyone who may wish to consider this and help us here
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Post by morley on Jan 6, 2014 2:25:41 GMT
There are other reasons why I think OTL then Weasel makes better sense, it has to do with Lee's attitude and it may make more sense to discuss after you have blogged the episodes. Lee seems to be enjoying Amanda's presence more openly in Weasel. And that scene in weasel where he tosses her the baseball and says something about the things that she does that make him want to get good and steamed are the very things that make him grateful (something like that)it seems to follow very nicely after OTL and the way he yells at her when she saves him and Francine near the end. It just seems like a good character progression to have OTL before Weasel.
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Post by valerie on Jan 6, 2014 2:48:02 GMT
This is so funny to me. It's like playing the shell game, but with the episodes. I would agree with Morley about the hair length in looking back at the eps. I think everyone is on the same page regarding Welcome to America. Personally it wasn't a favorite of mine, but I won't get into that right now. The hair was still a bit shorter in OTL for sure and there is no mention of the Q Bureau as well. It's those next three that are so tricky. Again, it's all about that connection between Lee and Amanda and their progress. Tail/Weasel is where the Q Bureau is introduced and they are trying to get it in ship shape. So I agree with it being after OTL. I agree with you Morley about Lee seeing Amanda distracted by someone else in ALLA and it motivating him. So I would agree with Morley's order as well.
Well, it is official or has been for a few hours, I have a snow day tomorrow. YAY me!! We are seriously getting slammed with some snow and there are warnings about how low the temps are going to be. We will be in the negative digits for the next couple of days. There are whole states like Minnesota and Illinois who have cancelled school around the state. Some won't have school for the next two days because of the extreme temps. People are calling it everything from Snowpocalypse to Snowmageddon. Stores were packed yesterday with people stocking up with food and water. You would have thought it was the end of the world. It does look awfully pretty though.
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