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Post by BJo on Jan 23, 2015 20:27:54 GMT
Very interesting indeed, iwsod! I like how you've used Dotty/Amanda's relationship as a way to view the episode order. And thank you Morley for directing me over here to this post. You both know episode order isn't my favorite thing, but using D/A instead of just L/A to figure it out is a really good idea.
I think what you say makes plausible sense, iwsod, but I'd like to reserve judgement until I watch them in this order. Not sure when I'll get to do that. But I can't immediately think of anything to contradict this suggested order. I do agree that UN has to come before SG because of the tags. It doesn't bother me that much that there might be one or two episodes in between. I think I could also see this order - UN JEG SG RFTS
I think this could fit from both D/A and L/A perspective. Dotty is not happy about A in UN - she is gone overnight no explanation - so they have a little talk about it. A protests she left a note. So Dotty lets her off with a warning and moves on. What you say about JEG fits here - maybe D thinks A has changed her behavior after their chat. In SG, A is back to secrets and Dotty is not happy again, but it's not like she was gone overnight without a note, so doesn't say anything. In RFTS - A misses J's play. BIG no no. Dotty has had it and lets A know. She is back to being really irritated with her daughter. They then have a real heart to heart talk. They must have worked out some sort of new rules of communication or something because A doesn't bat an eye in FTF about having to spend the night on the boat. Presumably she told her mother that it was a possibility but that she'd let her know or something. We haven't finished the ep on the blog yet, so I don't know if there are more A/D conversations in it, so we'll see.
For me this also fits with L/A. I like the idea of A learning about L being a kappa while on their date at Spencer's - among many other things, which is why L doesn't remember he told her. Maybe he'd had a little extra wine with his dinner and was feeling happy. I also think they are working like a well-oiled machine at the beginning and throughout RFTS, which works for the personal relationship as well.
These are just top of mind thoughts! I'm not looking to convince anyone - just playing around! The only thing I definitely would change form the airing order is to put UN before SG, but not necessarily needing to change the others.
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Post by learjet on Jan 23, 2015 22:37:57 GMT
I was on holiday when I suggested SG came before UN. I have no idea why, but it seemed logical at the time. Maybe I was too well-rested . I love the Dotty follow-through idea iwsod . I've got some time at the end of the week - I'm going to try to watch them in your hypothesised order, with my notebook in hand, and will report back
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Post by iwsod on Jan 23, 2015 23:43:32 GMT
hiya morley BJo & learjet! Thanks for checking out my order ideas.. It is a different way of viewing things this time around.. I found Lee and Amanda were easier to put in different orders than dotty. you had me thinking BJo! I was thinking yeaahhhh that order can work too! then I realised RFTS has Dotty really letting loose on Amanda - so I think it fits better right after utopia now - where Dotty's concerns got frantic.. and then Amanda hangs up on her - it seemed trouble was brewing to me. whereas in Sour grapes and JEG- dotty seemed to have come to an acceptance of it..not that she likes it that Dotty won't tell her where the red stains come from but hmm! don't tell her you'll tell her later when you know you won't! So JEG/SG could have come in either order in terms of Dotty or L/A - I can see that.. but for me the way Amanda dealt in these episode with two women traumatised by crime led me to put JeG first (where IMHO Amanda doesn't get it right later in the episode) and in SG - Amanda is on to it and doing well.. having adapted her people skills to this new type of person she needed to now deal with ( now that she's actually officially working on cases and not just involved by accident! ) Yes! BJo dooo watch the eps in your order and let us know please.. or my order if you like! I might try and watch them in my order too one night when I just need to chill! BJo I am loving having you around more often at the moment!!! Don't worry Learjet - ep order is like that.. sometimes i'll think yes! that order! but something really obvious is staring me in the face - so far I've managed to catch these moments before telling others about it -but give it time and it will happen and I'm not 100% convinced there's not something really obvious that I've missed with these eps 6-9! morley - whoooo you are considering it? well that's something! I know you've already processed this yourself so you can put your stories together but hey if I at the very least gave you impetus to think some more about smk that's a good thing right?! byeee guys!
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Post by morley on Jan 24, 2015 2:17:07 GMT
Oh, Iwsod, I am thinking. May require some research though... Right now I am working on Lee's thoughts for the first 5 (my order ) Then I will do Amanda. But I am open to relooking at the order for the next few. I like your idea. But I like mine too. If I can make them work together (and I might be able to) then why not. I have always respected your insight... You taught me how in the first place. Plus, it is just an excuse for more SMK fun and I can always use an excuse for that! Yes, BJo, it is good to have you around.
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Post by BJo on Jan 24, 2015 15:03:33 GMT
Learjet – looking forward to your report!
Iwsod – I think my way of thinking about Dotty and her reactions to Amanda fit with how I react to my kids – I let them off with a warning first, but if they do it again, look out! I get more upset with them if they keep on doing something I’ve told them not to do. That is why I can see that. And I see how Amanda’s reaction to Agnes and Penny would have you put them in that order. I can see that too. I can also see how the stark differences in Penny and Agnes would lead Amanda to think about and treat them differently. Plus Penny’s had a death whereas Agnes is being used and manipulated by a mean she loves. I think Amanda looks down on Agnes a little bit but is more like a mother to Penny – a role she’s more familiar with. I’ll see about watching these eps in both orders to see if I see a difference. Interesting discussion!
And thanks guys for being glad to having me back! I am enjoying participating again. I’m especially enjoying the discussion around Dotty and Amanda and thinking more about Amanda’s professional growth and how that is impacting her personal and family life.
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Post by morley on Jan 24, 2015 18:08:45 GMT
I have one thought (so far) about this proposed order that is keeping me from jumping on board. In UN Amanda is the one to make the step forward in the Lee/Amanda relationship arc. In RFTS I don't see either of them moving anything forward, other than the hint that they have had conversations about personal things in terms of the kappa discussion. In JEG once again we have Amanda moving things forward with her blackmail dinner scheme. And then in SG we have Lee initiating that kiss with Penny as an excuse. I guess I just don't see Amanda initiating steps forward one after the other without some sort of response from Lee. For her to say "not exactly" and then without any sign of Lee wanting to move things in a more romantic direction I cannot imagine her coming up with that blackmail scheme and being so flirtatious. I don't think the "We are talking about love" was enough for her because I am not sure that she was completely aware of the effect it had on Lee.
I will keep mulling it over and of course you might convince me yet.
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Post by iwsod on Jan 26, 2015 1:28:26 GMT
Morley I'm going to try and watch these eps tonight and I'll come back to this I agree that Agnes and Penny are not exactly the same situation, but I did see Amanda as learning a lesson - which related to either woman. With Penny, she doesn't push - though she can see Penny is upset. She calmly, gently writes down her number and says if she needs anything to please call her - she leaves it to Penny - respecting her. And.. Penny does call her With Agnes she (IMHO) disregarded Agnes' feelings, and then tried to push herself on to Agnes - she went over there off her own bat to see if Agnes was okay and Agnes didn't call her.. (and I don't think she and Amanda were friends before or anything either). Then, we had the whole thing of Amanda changing her mind and not accepting Agnes' request to be left alone or respecting Agnes' choices. Not a fan of that.. and I saw Amanda as learning this lesson.. I don't think Amanda was mothering either women. I think she started off knowing that was no appropriate.. but that's just my own view. I think Amanda was caring toward Penny, but it was not motherly. As for the Lee/Amanda thing- to be honest - in either order I find it a little random! Which is why I prefer at this point to look at other indicators.. either way (SG/JEG or JEG/SG) there is a step forward that is taken that we construct a story around to make it fit into the overall story - I can do that for either order here. but because I prefer Penny to come after Agnes I prefer JEG/SG.. A playful blackmail dinner is not as far along as Lee going in for a kiss at the end of Sour Grapes - and it could be argued it is not Amanda taking the first step - because Amanda is doing what Lee did to her back in A Lovely Little Affair already.. Just a few ideas.. but.. I'll be interested to hear what you guys make of things if you get a chance to watch the episodes. byeee for now!
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Post by iwsod on Jan 25, 2016 10:20:58 GMT
Hiya! as I mentioned on JWWM somewhere.. lol.. I've been pondering season 3 episode order..
Guys,... What if Flight to Freedom came after The Wrong Way Home? I'm guessing you guys probably won't like this order.. and I'm still playing around with my order..But.. the sudden hand holding in FTF has always been curious to me.. I have a few ideas floating around that I've been playing with.. In terms of the significance of what happens in TWWH and what was happening between Lee and Amanda before.. but I'm not ready to share them yet...just playing with ideas..
What difference would it make if FTF as after TWWH?
What would you make of the hand hold then? and the tag in FTF?
I've had a massive day on the computer today- I've gotta get off and save my eyes here but I hope you are all well- and bye for now!
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Post by morley on Jan 25, 2016 20:09:24 GMT
Well... I kind of like FTF right before TWWH. I think FTF has a bit of carefreeness to Lee and Amanda kind of like they are just tripping along into this relationship, especially Lee. And the hand holding is cute and comfy and innocent and all, but.... Then TWWH happens and I think Lee can't just trip along with Amanda anymore. He has to be deliberate because I think Joe's presence adds some weight, even if Joe isn't really a threat. And I kind of like the fact that I just discovered that when Amanda reaches for Lee's hand in the elevator in Triumvirate I believe that is the first time she has grabbed his hand since FTF and after TWWH. Just my two cents.
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Post by iwsod on Jan 25, 2016 22:42:32 GMT
LOL yep that's what I guessed you would say Morley I was asking if anyone was interested in exploring the hypothetical and what it would mean.. by doing so.. the meaning of the FTF handhold (when they leave Colleen, not when playing a cover) is explored from different angles. Just playing around with order.. I've explored hypothetical ideas by myself for season 3 up to the triumivirate and I'm nearly ready to share my ideas.. Morley wrote: I kind of like the fact that I just discovered that when Amanda reaches for Lee's hand in the elevator in Triumvirate I believe that is the first time she has grabbed his hand since FTF and after TWWH. I can see why you would like it it's a lovely thought! I'm not seeing it the same way though.. I should probably share on JWWM about it..
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Post by morley on Jan 25, 2016 23:49:58 GMT
I think it is fun that we can see it differently. Unfortunately I can't completely enter in to another way of viewing it while I am working on this season. I have so little time for SMK as it is. But when I am done with this season I will come back and fill this thread with musings to exhaust even the greatest enthusiast
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Post by valerie on Jan 26, 2016 2:16:53 GMT
Thinking I might take a look at those two eps in a different order just to see how it plays out. Always willing to watch some SMK.
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