Scarecrow and Mrs King & James Bond!

[iwsod]

Hi Everyone!

I'm just starting to think through the episode Welcome to America Mr Brand (WTAMB).. so the James Bond references will be (I think) coming thick and fast..

I was wondering who of you are well acquainted with James Bond films?? I haven't seen them all.. so my knowledge of the character is patchy.

I was especially wondering if anyone has seen You Only Die Twice?

Aside from Welcome to America Mr Brand, the James Bond Character has been in the back of my mind as we've walked through all of seasons 1 and 2.

Does anyone really like the character James Bond?

I am wondering if James Bond is who Lee was suppose to be like when the show started. That maybe Lee Stetson is who James Bond may have become- had he had an Amanda in his life. [Ie. if Lee didn' t have Amanda, he may have turned out like James Bond]
I wondered if Lee's character was loosely based on him - and then turned on it's head.. because while Lee is a spy, he turns out to become James Bond isn't. Just thinking up to the end of season 2 here because I am only mentally up to Welcome to America Mr Brand! [the first episode of season 3 we are covering on the blog].

I saw Scarecrow and Mrs King before I knew James Bond's back story
It's interesting to note what we learn about JB in Casino Royale - he was an orphan (same as Lee) [If I've understood correctly this is revealed in the Ian Fleming book You Only Die Twice - but I'm noooo James Bond expert so if you know this stuff please let us know ]
 .. he was raised by an aunt (Lee by an uncle) though JB went off to boarding school aged 12 ish..where he was eventually expelled
(like Lee- who was thrown out of every college or something- as we learn from Francine in Sudden Death) .
Like JB, Lee joins the military service and is then recruited to be a spy..
Like JB, Lee is athletic, but has issues with Authority and is often in trouble for not following the rules.. but he's also very good at what he does
Lee, like JB also seems to have a licence to kill no?

and in Casino Royale - JB fell in love with a woman that betrayed him.. [granted Vespa's fate is very different to Eva's] but JB and Lee both ended up with broken hearts. This left JB cold inside.. any heart he may have had put to death it seems.. Lee in The First Time was a lighter version of this, his heart not completely dead but well on the road towards it - until Amanda came along and revived his heart and his faith in humanity.

I don't think they were written to be exactly the same, I only mean that there are a number of interesting similarities, (not that this discounts the differences either).

The James Bond habit of making word puns/ one liners, and lightening serious moments or violence with humour is something we sometimes see from Lee.. the elaborate setting up of James Bond's death so the baddie can leave him to die? we see that often too..

I think the influence of the James Bond character is so ubiquitous we hardly notice it at times. But in WTAMB this influence is front and cnetre to the plot.. more in relation to Mr Brand I think, but it also relates to Lee

What do you all think?

I'm going to be thinking on the Character James Bond a lot during the WTAMB episode.. so would love to hear who knows James Bond well..

What do you think of his character??

I find James Bond these days to be a heartless jerk who uses and discards women and in that regard is no different to the baddies. This is where Lee Stetson wins hands down - he has a heart.. James Bond's seems to be well and truly lost..

Well, here are my rambling thoughts.. You got any you'd like to share?   Bye!

[creaturecuddler]

I am pretty familiar with the old James Bond movies, not the Pearce Brosnan ones, as my mom use to watch them all the time while I was growing up.  While I do think Lee or maybe I should say scarecrow was proably loosely based on James Bond, I think it was all surface similarities and that's where it ends.  Like James Bond Scarecrow thrives on danger and intrigue, doesn't respect authority, lives in the fast lane going to nightclubs every night and dates loose women, but underneath Scarecrow Lee Stetson is a real person.  To me James Bond never was.  To me James Bond was a character who loved the excitement and thrill of the spy world and loved being a hero, but he never really cared much about anything.  James Bond did the job because loved being a hero, not because it mattered.  I think Lee cares about things deeply even aside from Amanda's influence.  In the SMK pilot it really mattered to Lee what had happened to his partner, in season 4 Lee indicates that his parents death was something he always struggled with, and once upon a time he really believed he loved Eva and was willing to make a commitment.  James Bond never cared about a woman beyond the moment.  Despite the fact that my mom liked James Bond I always thought he was nothing but pure male fantasy, the handsome spy who lived a life of danger, got to bed thousands of women, never had to make a commitment and never had to worry about a family.  He wasn't real.  Okay, Lee isn't real either but I can relate to him.  And I think Lee is written more as a woman's fantasy.  He is a character written to be a man that a woman would fall in love with.  James Bond may have gotten lots of women, and I could see a woman getting swept away in the excitement of his world and fall into bed with a handsome dare devil, but no real woman would ever fall in love with him.  There was a real person under the scarecrow bravada with emotions, insecurities, faults...  James Bond didn't possess any of these things IMO.  This is just how I see James Bond, but I never liked him and though I grew up on the movies it's been years since I've watched them so I am sure I don't remember everything.  Someone who likes James Bond or who is more recently aquainted with him may totally disagree.

[Jenbo]

I love James Bond
However I think your interpretation of the character does depend on the portrayal you're watching. The Sean Connery/Roger Moore ones are a world away from Daniel Craig. In some respects I prefer the Daniel Craig interpretation. I think it shows that fall out from doing a job like they do. How similar to the life if an actual spy these days I have no idea but I think to do the job they do a certain level of detachment is needed. I think JB does the job not because he likes being a hero, I think there is an element of for Queen and Country but also he's good at it. Probably has attachment issues so this like of work fits in well with Him. Just IMO anyway

Is Lee like JB? In some ways yes and in other ways no. They have superficial similarities and that's about it.

I have never read a single one of Flemings books!

[iwsod]

Thanks sooooo much for responding Creature Cuddler and Jenbo!!! This may all seem a bit random but now I'm starting to look at Welcome to America Mr Brand, Bond is a big part of that episode..

Misty your right, underneath it all Lee and Bond end up being nothing alike!! thank goodness.. I'm wondering if that' s the point the episode tries to make. James Bond is not someone to emulate..
I think the differences between the two characters are very telling! I'm just exploring this idea so sorry if I don't make much sense.. I'll hopefully make sense when I write about it in my blog post

yeah very true Jenbo, Your experience of James Bond does depend on which one you've seen! I'll try and base my thoughts on James bond on versions seen prior to the mid 1980s - alas there was no Daniel craig james bond then..

Thanks again!

[valerie]

Just to throw in a couple of cents. I am not a big James Bond fan, but I am a Pierce Brosnan fan. I always felt bad when he missed his first opportunity to play Bond. So glad he eventually got the chance. I've only seen a few Bond movies so I don't think that qualifies me to speak much on the character. However, I think the focus on the SMK episode was the dashing, confidence and adeptness of Bond and how that compared to Mr. Brand as opposed to Lee. I think it's hard to create a spy character in any movie or TV show these days without there being some reference to James Bond. Not only was he a great spy and womanizer, but he always had the coolest gadgets and technology. My focus has always been on Brand (and Amanda) in this episode. This discussion will probably lead me to focus on Lee more, not that that's a bad thing, but it will be another and different way to view it.

[iwsod]

Valerie wrote: I think the focus on the SMK episode was the dashing, confidence and adeptness of Bond and how that compared to Mr. Brand as opposed to Lee.

I think you are on to something Valerie! very true! for the most part Bond is about James.. but.. I am finding the character has something to say about Lee and Amanda too

Focusing more on Lee? well that's never a bad thing haaaa.. I'm trying to get ahead with posts (because in the next week or two I'm moving and starting back at full time study/work) and am now half way through writing the Brand episode. I'm finding there are many things I've overlooked because I was too focused on bumbling James.. I think I was missing out on all the good stuff
I look forward to discussing this all with you on JWWM when the time comes. but thanks for your input Valerie!

[laura]

The first JB movie came out in 1962. It is my opinion that James Bond became the benchmark for future spy movies and TV programs. Westerns were still in vogue in 62 as were variety shows. In a few years we had Mission Impossible, Get Smart, I Spy, and the Man From U.N.C.L.E. Just a few that I can think of off the top of my head. None were exactly Bond clones, yet they had some Bond qualities. Lee Stetson is definitely suave and sophisticated and brave. That is were the comparison ends. Even with four little black books Scarecrow never seems to be just using or leading on his women. If I had to choose between James Bond and Scarecrow/Lee Stetson then Lee would win hands down.

[iwsod]

Hi Laura!!! hear hear!!!! I'm with you.. Give me Lee Stetson anytime!!!

[learjet]

I really don't like James Bond. And his attitude to women (romantically) appals me and I find the action a bit boring. I like all the fun gadgets, car etc. Definitely Lee!

[Khell]

Oh, I like James Bond! That is - I like him in his Connery and Moore incarnations. Can do without Dalton and Brosnan and I've only recently started to like Craig ("Skyfall" finally had that right "Bond"-feeling again). The best Bond girl, however, isn't a Connery or Moore one but Lazenby's. Diana Rigg - can't do any better than that! Plus, Bond married her. Must be someone special who can make James Bond fall for her so hard he's giving up all those other girls, huh? Too bad that didn't end welll. On the other hand, I can't imagine James Bond married ... It works for Amanda and Lee but not for James Bond ...